Bo's Deep Thoughts - Topic Madness...New Question Up
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Good idea?
Yes
40%
 40%  [ 2 ]
Yes but number 2
60%
 60%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 5

bohemian
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Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:18 pm
The Scholar's Room doesn't get much love these days, so I figured that I would try and spice it up with a different topic, question, idea, theme every week or month, depending on if I can think of anything to change it to. Also, if someone wants to suggest a topic, but don't want to start a new thread about it, let me know and I will throw it up here for general discussion.

Before we get started with the talking, we need to set a few ground rules first.

1. Respect everyone's opinions. They won't be the same as yours, but I would rather people feel safe to voice an opinion here.

2. I will only give you one warning, if you want to act like a tw*t and shout down someone else's opinion, then take it to gaia, we don't want it here. If you continue, I will pm a Knight (more than likely Sir Scarz), to remove or edit your post to remove what you have written if it makes it look like there will be a double post resulting in the removal of your post.

3. You are free to continue to discuss previous topics that have been posted about. If you see a previous topic listed and you didn't get your two cents as it were at the time, bring it back up with the topic in question quoted, just so we know what you are discussing.

4. If you have an issue with a topic that is the current topic, you don't have to join in with the discussion, but feel free to suggest a new topic for discussion the following week.

I will add rules if need be, but I think that covers it for now.

CURRENT TOPIC

- Do business owners have the right to refuse service to customers?

PAST TOPICS

- Is the meaning of life the same for animals and humans?
- Should opioid medication be used to treat chronic pain suffers?
- Would it be more frightening to discover that humans are the most advanced species in the universe or that we are far from being the most advanced species in the universe?
- With everything going on in the world today, do you think that we will see a World War III, or is the majority of it the world leaders puffing out their chests and putting on a show to scare people?
- So, Santa Fe was the latest place in America to be affected by a shooting that affects more than just the shooter. I have noticed recently, from a Canadian no less, that there is an increase in idiotic politicians basically burying their heads in the sand about gun violence. Now, do you believe the USA should have stricter rules and regulations when it comes to being able to purchase guns, OR, do you think that there needs to be more education on mental health....or both?

Also, this was the first article that popped up when I googled school shootings america 2018 https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/02/us/school-shootings-2018-list-trnd/index.html
- Piercings for health. Good idea, need more evidence, just a passing trend, give me your thoughts! Please? Shocked
- Is happiness just chemicals flowing through your brain or something more?
- So, since I got a new tattoo, there have been conversations starting up in regards to tattoos. While tattoos have become more mainstream, there tends to be a few categories that people will fall into when it comes to tattoos, thinking long and hard about what goes on their bodies and where, and rocking up to a tattoo studio and getting a random tattoo. But there is also a subculture to the tattoo world who take tattooing and piercing to the next level. In terms of body modifications, tattoos and piercings are nothing compared to putting silicon molds under the skin, injecting silicon under the skin and scarification (cutting designs into the skin and allowing them to heal to form a scar).

Feel free to discuss any part of this culture.
- Assuming evolution is correct, do you think that if humans went extinct another species as intelligent as humans would evolve? If life exists long enough on a planet, is intelligence and consciousness inevitable?
- If it was discovered that personality traits were partly genetic and could be removed with gene therapy, would it be ethical to edit out negative character traits that harm others like extreme aggression, compulsive lying, or cruelty?
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Last edited by bohemian on Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:59 pm; edited 12 times in total
Rayven
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Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:52 pm
Bo I would love to see more discussions! I think this is a great idea. I don't get enough deep conversations in real life anymore so if I could get it here that would be awesome. Very Happy I promise to behave myself. XD
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Riley
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Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:08 am
I agree with Rayven. I would love to see more discussions too. And as far as being respectful, I wonder if having philosophical discussions instead of controversial discussions might assist with that? Though the Zantarni citizens have always been pretty good about being respectful in discussions. With that said, I'm interested in what the first topic will be. Very Happy
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bohemian
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Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:59 am
So, we now have a philosophical question up for a starting point. Yes

And with discussion, it brings long posts...which is great for events. XD

"Is the meaning of life the same for animals and humans?"

I am going to say that it is completely different. Maybe on a primal level, it is the same...but what is the meaning of life to humans? You ask anyone and they will have a different answer. My answer is 42. Laughing
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Rayven
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Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:34 pm
Riley might be right about philosophical being better. However, I think the current, active Zan citizens can handle others having opinions and beliefs different from their own. One thing everyone needs to consider is where the person posting came from, and how they were raised. I have came to the conclusion that a lot of beliefs/morals are developed differently depending on those factors. For example, someone that did not grow up in the United States can not possibly understand all of the intricacies of life and the social structure here, and I couldn't possibly know what it's like to be from Bangladesh. You really have to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to know what it's like to be them, and to understand why they feel/believe as they do.




42. XD Good question Bo. Very Happy




I don't think it is the same. Only on a primal level, as Bo mentioned. We're all just trying to survive, and have progeny that will keep our legacy going. I believe that is where the similarities end. Humans make everything more complicated. No matter if it needs to be, or not. Animals take everything one moment at a time. We worry about where we'll be in 5 years. I doubt animals worry about having regrets on their death bed. XD I do believe that they think more than most people give them credit for. However, that doesn't include complex religious beliefs with concerns for the after life, or any kind of "why am I here" thoughts like we have.
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Riley
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Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:04 pm
I think for all animals, their meaning of life comes down to survival, to ensure the passing on of their genes. With some of the more intelligent animals, they have one mate for life. I'm not sure what that means in relation to the topic question, but there are animal species that don't have that dynamic.

Humans have a greater capacity and a greater degree of freedom to make their own choices in life. While some humans do want to have children and pass on their genes, others choose not to. The later have a different meaning of life than the former. And like Rayven said, we have the awareness to ask ourselves, "why are we here?". I'm pretty sure animals don't gaze into the stars and ask themselves that.
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Rayven
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Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:29 am
Riley you brought up a good point. How does the meaning of life differ for someone that doesn't want/can't have children? I only mentioned it in my post because that seems to be the general consensus about what at least part of life is about. I'm on the fence on that one myself. I do have one child, but I never felt like having children was my sole purpose for being on this planet. I personally feel like my main goal has been to be as happy as possible, and to make the most of it since this is the only life I get.
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Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:25 am
So we are basically in agreement that it is the same on the primal level, but humans, while...slightly more intelligent, are still stupid compared to animals. As soon as a new shiny product comes out, much like the yearly, half yearly release of the newest phones or computers or tvs...and a lot of stuff that you don't actually need to be happy, people with too much money (or even if they don't have the money for it), jump on it and have to be first in line to get it, but does it truly make them happy, or is it just another thing to pass the time away? And isn't happiness really the meaning to life? Not just survival and passing on your genes to the next generation. I think being happy is the key to life.
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Rayven
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Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:50 pm
bohemian wrote:
So we are basically in agreement that it is the same on the primal level, but humans, while...slightly more intelligent, are still stupid compared to animals.





I don't remember putting it quite like that, but, yes, I do happen to agree with that. XD

As to what you said about people trying to find happiness with things, etc., I believe that 100%. Personally I think humans are basically unhappy a good deal of the time, and are always looking for things/situations/other people to make them feel happy. I needed no more proof of that than working in a store. For every happy customer I had, I'd have ten more that were crabby, rude, or just blah. I think we're too smart (or too stupid) to be happy with what we've got. To us, the grass is always greener on the other side. We're picky too which doesn't help. I have seen some of that in animals too though. If you give one dog dogfood and another a bone, the first dog will either look longingly at the dog with the bone, or try to take the bone away from the other dog. Animals definitely have preferences. However, if a dog doesn't get what they want, they get over it quickly, and I don't believe they are any less happy. At least after a few minutes. In short, I believe I would be happier as a dog. I would still probably wind up being one of the nervous, yappy ones. XD

I also believe finding happiness is the meaning of life. It's not possible to be happy every moment, but hopefully we can look back on our lives and say we were basically happy. I also think that we're supposed to learn, teach, be good people, do good things, and love.
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Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:33 pm
And I think a factor that plays into the meaning of life for humans, is that we no longer have to do the things cavemen did to survive. Things like hunting, farming, shelter, clothing, fire, etc, are all things we don't really have to worry about anymore. Without worrying about those basic necessities, it give us the freedom to think about life beyond those basic things.
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Rayven
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Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:50 pm
That's very true. It's hard to have time and energy to think about the meaning of life when you're struggling just to survive.

I'm sure when the many religions came into the picture that made a difference too. If a person wants to make it to the desired afterlife (or whatever their particular religion believes in) there are things they have to do, and things they shouldn't do in order to attain that goal. The meaning of life for an individual with religious beliefs could be heavily altered depending on their level of dedication to said religion. Instead of only thinking about what life means to them, they will be concerned with it from a religious perspective.
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Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:43 pm
I know philosophical questions are great and all, but I decided it was time for a new topic and I decided to go for something that is current and can be discussed and may or may not be in the news of late.

So, full disclosure, I am a chronic pain sufferer, BUT, I don't take opioids to deal with my pain.

I personally think for long term pain sufferers like myself, opioids are a step too far. I have been trying to deal with my pain issues by looking at it from all aspects, trying to figure out what is hurting and perhaps seeing someone in that area of expertise to figure out why it hurts and what we can do to make it better, firstly without medication and if that doesn't work alone, then a combination of un-medicated and mildly medicated and proceed along that path until we find that point where it is working and then we can ease off the medication.

I probably have reached a point where opioids would help, but I know that it can be easily abused. But then again, I was getting high off paracetamol because I followed the doctors orders to the letter of 2 pills, 3 times a day to manage pain. Imagine what would have happened to me if it were something much stronger like an opioid? I would have been off my face and it wouldn't have been pretty.

I think most people would agree, that opioids only treat short term pain. Not constant, day in, day out pain. But, I also know that a LOT, and I mean the majority of them, of chronic pain sufferers, cannot live without opioids. And they go on to moan about how much pain they are in and basically poo-poo anyone who suggests something to do with movement, because obviously, that is going to cause them so much more pain of course.

The government here in Australia, has made codeine medications, that used to be available over the counter at the pharmacy (and ONLY the pharmacy), prescription only. It makes it difficult for people like me, not only a chronic pain sufferer, but a chronic migraine sufferer as well, who use codeine medications to treat their migraines. I always limit it to a MAX of two tablets, generally taken together for maximum effort, a day. Four tablets if it is a son of a birthmark kinda migraine.

(Trust me to write an essay when I should be studying for a test instead Laughing )
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Riley
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Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:40 pm
The philosophical topics were only a suggestion Very Happy I'm sure I will have an opinion on any chosen topic Laughing

That said, I too, am a chronic pain person. I have tried many things over the years. I had a prescription for Vicodin (back when they were actually making Vicodin), and I had a couple of prescriptions for Norco. They were fantastic for those super, awful, bad pain days. And even then, I only took a half tablet most of the time. One prescription of 30 tablets lasted me over two years. But now with the opioid concerns, I really don't want to fight with my doctor for another prescription.

With my years of battling my own chronic pain, I am starting to believe that opioids are not an appropriate coarse of treatment for chronic pain sufferers. It is not a long term solution, since these medications are addictive.

On that note, I think doctors should be more sympathetic to pain management. I have found a combination of several non-pharmacological ways to help with my pain. I still have bad pain days, but that is not the majority of the time. The reality that chronic pain sufferers have, is that their pain is likely not going to go away. That's why it is chronic. Therefore, there is no easy way out for people like us. We need to put in the effort, but it would also be nice to have more support from doctors. That's been my personal experience with the doctors here in America. Physical therapy, massage therapy, aqua therapy, electostimulation therapy, mineral and essential oil therapy, heat and ice therapy, etc., are all viable ways of pain control. Even mindfulness meditation has proven helpful.

Opioids have their place, and perhaps chronic pain sufferers can use them initially to get their pain under some sort of control. But it will not be a viable long term solution.
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Rayven
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Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:23 pm
I've never had chronic pain so I can't speak from experience, nor do I think I know enough about this subject to speak with any authority on the matter. All I can do is speak in general terms, and tell of a recent experience I had that made me think about this subject.

Recently I had some severe pain in my stomach, chest, and back. I was afraid I was having a heart attack since I experienced heartburn before, and this didn't feel like that at all. It turns out it was stomach issues, or at least that's what I've been told. However, with no insurance I can't get it investigated thoroughly. I was only able to go to the emergency room, and get a quick checkup. I can say that medicines that treat acid reflux, and other stomach issues, seem to be helping. I still have some discomfort, but nothing as severe as before. I have not had a major episode since the day after I went to the emergency room. The "episode" lasted all day, and nothing seemed to help. Since then I have been on acid reducers, and I have done ok. I assume those took time to get into my system. I am thankful that I am no longer suffering, and that it was short-lived.

When my pain was at its worst I had newfound respect and sympathy for chronic pain sufferers. I was miserable, and I asked myself what I would do if I were in their shoes. The answer-almost anything. I do think opioids are probably a bad idea unless the individual taking them has great self-control. However, if someone can't function because they are in so much pain, what are they to do?! I honestly believe if I were a chronic pain sufferer that I would probably take them if I had no other options. I could only hope that I wouldn't become addicted, and that my quality of life wouldn't suffer. I'm quite sure that my quality of life would certainly suffer if I were in chronic pain. I'm not saying I'm pro-opioid. I'm just saying that I think it's up to the individual to decide what to do, and I can't judge them for it. Unfortunately opioids seem to work much better on pain than other medicines. Ibuprofen and Tylenol just can't touch severe pain. Also, every person is different. That doesn't help matters. What works on one person, or on one kind of pain, won't work on another. From a doctor's perspective I'm sure pain is difficult to treat.

I can only hope that there are advances in pain management, and that, as Bo stated, doctors get with the program. From what I've seen, with my limited experience, there seem to be a few issues. Most western doctors don't want to help you explore alternatives to pain medicines, and all of them seem to fit into one of two categories. There are those that prescribe without a thought for possible problems, and those that won't prescribe at all fearing addiction. There needs to be a happy medium, and there also needs to be more choices. Perhaps I'm judging doctors too harshly. I'm not one, and I can't possibly know what they have to deal with. Maybe they're doing the best they can with what they have available to them.
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Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 pm
I think the ONLY time I was given an opioid to take, was after minor surgery when I had an ingrown toenail taken care of. I was given Panadeine Forte, which from a little bit of googling, tells me is a weak opioid. I don't actually remember taking very many of them...I think I was cleaning through some drawers about 10 years ago and found I think it was most of the box sitting there. Second round with a different doctor and other big toe, I could feel basically everything she was doing to me...and she was so lucky I don't kick lol. The numbing stuff wasn't strong enough for me to not completely be pain free. I think that is why she didn't go removing the root of the toenail. I think she may have recommended the otc (at the time) painkillers to take if the pain was too much.

I guess I should consider myself lucky that I have never needed anything stronger...and after my learning curve to not always follow the "specialist's" advice of 2 pills 3 times a day, because you CAN get high off the much weaker stuff by doing that.

I don't agree with cutting people off from what they are taking straight away, especially if they have been on it for years and their body has become dependent on it. I read horror stories from people who have had to go see a new doctor completely or different doctor within the same medical practice even, because their doctor is away or has moved out of the area or retired, and the new guy refuses to give out what they have been taking for years without even considering what will happen to them with withdrawals alone.

I think ALL doctors, not just the ones coming out of medical school now, but all of them, even the doctors who have been practicing medicine since Abe was a boy, need to be re-educated. There is never, ever, ever, a neatly packaged box to treat the same condition for different people. And they are idiots to think that they can force it.
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