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Good idea?
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Yes but number 2
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Scarz
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:52 pm
The fire in Centralia started in the early 60's and it seems much like the Times Beach incident, only mentioned fleetingly in school today. . .more likely to hear about it in a class about pollution as they are no longer current events. . .
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Rayven
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:29 pm
Problems do tend to get forgotten after the immediate uproar. Yes
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bohemian
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Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:21 pm
Time for a philosophical question.

Is happiness just chemicals flowing through your brain or something more?
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Rayven
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Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:04 pm
I believe it is something more. Personally, I don't have a problem mixing science with abstract thinking. I've never understood why it has to be one, or the other. For example, I think happiness is more than just a chemical reaction, but that the chemicals are the mechanics of it. I just don't believe that chemicals are the reason it happened in the first place.

I've had a broken heart. I've been in such intense emotional pain that my heart literally hurt. If I talked to a scientist I'm sure that they would tell me what was going on in my body to make me feel that way, but I'm not overly concerned with the mechanics. I'm concerned with what broke my heart. My heart didn't hurt until after something, or someone, had already hurt me emotionally.

I believe that the things we experience and feel in this life matter. How we treat each other matters. If it's only a chemical reaction we're feeling, nothing would matter. We could just say, "Oh it's just the chemicals. It'll pass." I need it to matter.
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Scarz
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Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:23 pm
I agree that there is science that can explain away every feeling . . .good and bad. . .however there are physical and psychological things that happen to you when you have these feelings. . .the "broken heart" truly is an ache in the chest, a feeling of sadness and pain that science may have an explanation for, but you also have the self-awareness of. Maybe chemicals in the brain cause the ache, but you "feel" the ache because it truly hurts.

The same with when you are very happy. . .I recently got hooked on videos of kids and adults getting kittens and puppies. . .everyone's reactions are different, some can't stop smiling, some can't stop crying, some jump up and down, some just can't believe it is real. . .yet all are expressions of "their" happiness and receiving the pet they wanted. . .emotions may actually be controlled by chemicals in your brain, but they are your emotions and your feelings and how it makes you feel is truly yours, no matter the "scientific" explanation.

I, for one, do not care about the "scientific" reason, I only care about how I feel in those situations. . .

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Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:53 pm
As someone who fights with depression and anxiety frequently, I believe that my brain chemicals are doing whatever it is they are doing, which causes me to feel something I don't have an explanation for. There are some things that trigger either or both, but there are some days where I cannot figure out if there is a situational cause, or if it is just happening because reasons.

But, because I fight with depression and anxiety, I also believe that I can make my own happiness, so to speak. Some days I can think my way out of it, or I can force myself to do something I know I normally enjoy, and it will bring on feelings of happiness.

Science can have an explanation for everything (or most things), but I think emotions are too complex for science to have a complete understanding of. In my battles, I've heard the scientific reason behind depression and anxiety, and I really couldn't care less. As has been stated already, my concern is how I am feeling, not necessarily why.

The fact that I can work my way out of an episode leads me to believe that happiness, and emotions in general, are something more than just chemicals firing and misfiring.
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Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
I think science is great, but I don't think it works for everything. At least not completely. I mean no offense to anyone who primarily believes in science. All of us have to do, and believe in, what works for us. Not to say that we should just believe in anything, but in some instances truth can vary from person to person. Some of it comes down to perception, and personal experiences. It's hard to figure science into that. Science needs cold, hard facts. Sometimes that's a good thing, but there are certain subjects where that is just not possible. I think it's ok to have our beliefs as long as those beliefs don't hurt anyone.

I'm glad that the subject of animals was brought up. When my brother was a baby my Mom and I did everything we could to make him laugh, but nothing worked. We were playing with him in the floor still trying to get him to laugh when my dog walked by. My brother belly laughed! We couldn't believe it. All the dog had to do to get my brother to laugh was walk by. Shocked It happened a couple of more times after that so it wasn't a fluke. I don't think science can explain that one either. Unless it can explain why most of us are born with the extraordinary ability to love animals, and how we instinctively seem to know what joy they can bring. Animal emotions get downplayed too, but I'm not buying that one either. I'm not saying they're as complex as we are, but I think that they are more advanced than they are given credit for.

I do think chemicals play a part in depression and other conditions, but sometimes when it appears there is no cause, I think we're just having trouble figuring out what it is that's bothering us.

I was diagnosed years ago with depression, and was put on medications that had little effect. I eventually went off of them. It took me years to realize that when I was severely depressed, and the doctors would up or change my meds to no avail, my life was just hard. I was going through really tough times, and in some really hard situations. It was no wonder that I was depressed. When I got out of those situations my mood naturally came up. I'm not saying that I don't have depression. Perhaps I do. I do think that I probably feel depressed or upset easier than others might, but I am also extremely sensitive. Everything hits me harder, even good emotions, because I feel so deeply.

I'm pretty self-aware, but even I have trouble figuring out what's bothering me sometimes. It's not always anything major that stands out. One thing is for sure, our brains are busy thinking about things even if we don't realize it. I remember my Dad would get crabby the day before going back to work after being on vacation, and my Mom finally figured out that he was dreading going back to work. She asked him about it, and he said he thought she was probably right. One day I asked E what was wrong with him even though I should have known better because he is not self-aware at all. He said he thought he needed a haircut. No XD
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bohemian
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Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:20 am
While I know that happiness is just a chemical reaction going on in my brain giving me "happy" feelings, I also know that there is more to it than that.

My sister's dogs will make noise and carry on when someone shows up, it doesn't seem to matter who it is. But I get them to settle down and sit down before I open the door and they are quivering in excitement that someone is there. Then when I tell them to go on the mat, they will race over and try and jump up on me, but they have to sit before they get any attention. The older two will sit there quivering in excitement, while the youngest will zoom around the living room and pick up a toy to kill in his excitement. And then comes the moment they have been waiting for, the petting time! So much excitement from three little fluffballs. Laughing And then they get REALLY excited when I get them a treat. XD

I think in the end it doesn't matter about the chemical reaction part of the equation, because while science can tell us this is how it is happening and this is why it is happening, it can't change how we feel in the end. Happiness, sadness, depression, grief, anxiety etc, it's how we feel that matters.

I guess that is also why most people are religious. It makes them feel good and so they keep on going for that high they get. When they stop getting that high, they become disillusioned with their chosen religion and try and find a replacement for that high. It could also be said for drug addicts who were getting high off drugs, finding that they could get that same high with religion, and without the negative withdrawals that means they need to find more of their drug of choice.

NEW QUESTION!

So, since I got a new tattoo, there have been conversations starting up in regards to tattoos. While tattoos have become more mainstream, there tends to be a few categories that people will fall into when it comes to tattoos, thinking long and hard about what goes on their bodies and where, and rocking up to a tattoo studio and getting a random tattoo. But there is also a subculture to the tattoo world who take tattooing and piercing to the next level. In terms of body modifications, tattoos and piercings are nothing compared to putting silicon molds under the skin, injecting silicon under the skin and scarification (cutting designs into the skin and allowing them to heal to form a scar).

Feel free to discuss any part of this culture.
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Scarz
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Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:57 am
As I said, I am not into the whole tattoo thing, though I try not to judge anyone who does and as I said I really do not understand the extreme tattooing (faces necks, heads or tats that make one look like a lizard or a cat), and I see nothing wrong with a piercing or two, though the extreme body mods I really do not understand, intentional scarring or branding. . .putting or injecting silicone makes really no sense when so many women who have had silicone breast implants have had some very serious health problems because of them. adding horns or scales or other strange objects makes no sense to me. . .maybe I am just old school, but I do not even understand how some of the people who have such extreme body mods can even land jobs. . .maybe they don't, or as I said they work in tattoo parlors, biker bars or body mod shops. . .I just don't know.

Everyone has a right to do what they want as long as what they want does not hurt someone else. . .but I am not sure that they understand the long term risks of their actions, health and otherwise. . .

IMHO. . .

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bohemian
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Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:43 am
I am of the camp of sitting and thinking for looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong periods of time before actually getting a tattoo. My first tattoo was a medical alert on my right wrist. It has the medical alert symbol on top of my wrist, with what was a red circle, but is now purple (and will need to be touched up again in...whatever month comes after August lol). On the inside of my wrist is a simplified version of the medical alert, with the 3 medications that I am allergic to. Aside from one random woman in a nail salon thinking it was the symbol of one of the archangels, paramedics and other people in the medical fields, and a handful of retail workers who have seen it, have told me it is the best idea for a tattoo that they have seen. And as much as I was desperate to get tattooed at 18, I am glad I waited until I decided on something that I knew would help me in the long run. And the $300 I paid was worth it, it saves me from constantly replacing medical alert bracelets or necklaces that I lose or misplace, and to be frank, my skin doesn't seem to like things rubbing against it constantly.

Anyway, aside from my obvious tattoo, you wouldn't be able to tell that I have any others (except for maybe in summer with one of them lol). A lot of people who get tattoos would be along the lines of small and subtle (mostly females) and things that they can hide. Other people might go for a sleeve or half sleeve that they can also hide, especially if they work in business where they are required to wear a suit. And then there are the people who go for bodysuits, which is a part of the history of the Japanese underworld. I think it is the Yakuza. And with the bodysuits, I think it is fascinating looking at pictures, the tattoos are cut off, either at elbows and knees, ankles and wrists, never above the neck and rarely on the face. I think today we are more accepting of tattoos, as long as they are not offensive, and if they are, they should at least be hidden from view.

I watched an episode of "Botched" (I think that is what it is called), and a young woman went in looking to get some plastic surgery to get rid of a scar on her neck/chest area. But because her skin was so thin, they wouldn't have been able to help her. But the reason why she had the scar there, was because she had a silicon implant put in under the skin there and she picked at the wound while it was healing, thus the scar. She also had on her thigh, a scar "design" from the scarification that she had done. I can tell you, those doctors were horrified by both the sub-dermal implant and the scarification on her thigh. She told them about another sub-dermal implant that she had planned to get in her hand. They both got really concerned because of how thin her skin is and basically begged her not to do it because it could hurt her in the long run. She listened to them then, but who knows what she has done now.

There are certain areas that I would never get tattooed. Eyeballs being one. I kinda like being able to see. Also my face, a small delicate tattoo behind my ear would be fine for me (another thing I could hide lol), nothing on my throat or any higher than where my current chest tattoo is (back of neck is fine...long hair and all lol)...and nothing too intimate, although, if I had to have a double mastectomy done, you can guarantee that I would get something super feminine tattooed and more than likely highlighting the scars.
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Last edited by bohemian on Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Rayven
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Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:28 am
Well as it turns out I don't have to copy Sir Scarz' comment from the other thread because he mentioned it again. XD All I was going to say was that we've recently been watching a lot of Live PD on tv and I was pleasantly surprised to see the amount of police officers with tattoos. I'm sure there are still areas of law enforcement, or the military, where they're not approved, but it looks like it is starting to become accepted to some degree. I did notice that one police officer on there covers hers up, but I don't know if that is a personal choice or the choice of her particular police department. No one else besides her seems to be hiding them.






While I was waiting to have time to reply to this I had a lot of time to think about what to say, and I came to a decision besides just what to say. It appears that I'm a strange mixture of conservative and liberal. I'm using the fact that I'm a Gemini as my excuse. XD

Personally I like tattoos, and modest, simple piercings. I even find it attractive if people are heavily tattooed as long as the tattoos are tasteful and well thought out. I think Kat Von D looks beautiful, but I also don't think it's for everybody. I think ear piercings, or a dainty little stud in the nose, looks awesome. Extreme piercings, vulgar tattoos, implants, and scarification all go against my personal tastes. To each his own. However, I am not going to judge someone for it. It's their body, and it's not hurting me. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should though. I only hope they don't regret their choices some day. Before I got tattoos I asked myself if I would be embarrassed by them when I was 80. I answered myself no, but I think if I had made even more extreme choices that I'd have had a different answer.

After taking some time to think about it, I do have my doubts about whether or not some of it should be legal. There's a fine line between live and let live, and not having our priorities straight. For example, we can slit our tongues to look like a lizard, or have tons of plastic surgery so that we can have the appearance of a cat, but if we have terminal cancer we are not allowed to choose when and how we leave this world. That doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't believe that we should discriminate against people for their personal choices, and I don't think we should constantly have to hide who we are just to make others comfortable. I've discovered there's all kinds of acceptable discrimination. Overweight people, smokers, unattractive people, attractive people, and people with tattoos, etc. all get harassed and discriminated against all the time. No one seems to notice it when that happens. I've been a victim of much of that myself many, many times. I don't think it's right to refuse to give someone a job because they have tattoos. I've had some jobs that didn't care, and others that did. After years of dealing with it I decided I didn't want a job that would judge me because I had a couple of tattoos. Love me or hate me. I gotta be me. I think all forms of discrimination should be handled the same. If it is illegal to discriminate against one thing, it should be illegal to discriminate for any reason.

I asked my Mom years ago why she didn't like tattoos. She said in her day only "rough type" people with no morals got them. Simply put, it was taboo. Religion and culture play a big role in taboos. My Mom has come a long way. It took me years to convince her that people who drink a little, or who have tattoos, can still be really great people with morals. Eventually she thanked me for teaching her that, and for making her relax. She said she learned that not only from all the talks we had, but also by watching me. I was her new example of a good person. I'm really glad she learned that because truly bad people don't always advertise by having tattoos. XD
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Scarz
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Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:20 am
I think a company has a right to decide who they want or don't want representing their company. . .I can't think of any bank that would hire someone with a face tattoo, yet many mechanical shops could care less as long as they can do the job. . .

What I don't like is when a company has a policy, they don't enforce fairly. Where I work, I know of a few security personnel that had to have tattoos removed (if they wanted the job) because their tattoos were on their knuckles and visible, while one lady in HR had a huge peace symbol on her calf and didn't have to cover it up (she now works in the corporate office).

I have noticed more Police with tats, though they usually stop at their wrists, which means they are actually covered up when they wear long sleeves. The military is going to a similar rule, after allowing some people to go overboard previously.

Times change, but there are always some people that do take things to extremes without a thought about the future. . .I am glad you asked yourself the question about being embarrassed at 80, many don't. I remember seeing a video once where someone was talking about how some tats change over time and some of them were not very attractive changes as one aged.

I also don't understand why some people get inappropriate tattoos. . I have a friend who has a teenage daughter and he has several naked lady tats on his shoulder and he always runs around without a shirt. . .not really sure what he was thinking because he didn't get the tats until after his daughter was born.

I can understand where your mother is coming from. . .before only bad boys and the military got tattoos (unless of course you were the tattooed man or lady at the circus, back then). . .I have a friend who grew up in Japan and as Lady bo mentioned, tats there used to indicate that you were a part of the Yakuza (well tats and missing little fingers). . .some of the artwork on those tats would be incredible paintings (I think some probably were taken from paintings).

Another one I don't understand is the whole gauge thing. . .especially those that believe the bigger the better. . .and I must be sick as when I see someone with the really large gauges, I imagine one of those circular screamer whistles inside the gauge whistling every time they move their head in the wind. . .

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Rayven
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Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:33 pm
I can understand where you're coming from on that, and I do think a line probably has to be drawn somewhere. The problem is where to draw that line, and who gets to draw it. For a company to tell someone they can't have any tattoos, even modest ones, seems very unreasonable to me in this day and age. It may be their right, but I think that as times change adaptation is necessary. In the end what should be important is if the person can do the job or not. These companies may be missing out on some great employees for appearances sake.

I know what you mean. I used to work in HR. My boss, the director, often didn't keep the same rules for everyone, and let things slide that he shouldn't have. We disagreed about that multiple times. I don't see the point in having rules if they aren't going to be enforced. Having said that, I'd be ok with less rules.

There are some parts of the body that age worse than others. It probably wouldn't be a great idea to get a tattoo on one of those areas. XD

I get where she was coming from too. I just think that when times change it's best to adapt. The only other choice is to sit around being bothered by it. There are some changes we should stand up to, but we have to pick our battles. Personally I don't think someone else's appearance is the battle to pick. I've always appreciated that Native Americans often had tattoos and displayed them proudly. However, theirs didn't have nefarious roots like the Yakuza's.

I can pretty much fit in anywhere as far as I know. I don't think my appearance has went too far one way or the other. I only have one tattoo (the one on my left forearm) that has given me any trouble, and it is the only one that I slightly regret. Not because I care what people think, but because the questions and comments get old. I remember this older couple that would come in to eat at my first job. The man found it his business to tell me I shouldn't have gotten that tattoo, and proceeded to tip me every time he came in so that I could "get it removed". :/ For someone who was supposed to be more proper than me, I didn't find that very proper. My Mom taught me that if I saw something I didn't like or agree with that I was to keep my comments to myself, and even pretend like I didn't see it. He probably didn't think he was being offensive, but, to me, he was. Later on I kept running into this old, gross drunk at my favorite bar who thought it was acceptable to grab my arm and ask me about my tattoo every time he saw me. I don't think he even remembered I was the same person every time he did it. I was polite the first several times, but enough was enough. I get tired of random men thinking they have the right to touch me. The last time I jerked my arm out of his grasp, and told him he shouldn't just be grabbing women. I got called a filthy name for my troubles.

Gauges aren't my personal taste either, but I'm sure some people genuinely think they're cool or beautiful. I think the biggest reason for all of the extreme choices is rebellion. To some degree that's why I did a lot of the things I did when I was younger. That includes my first tattoo. Later on I got more because I liked them. Some people find society's rules, and being told what they can or can't do without a reasonable explanation, oppressive. "Because it's just not a good idea.", and "Good Christians don't do that." never sat too well with me. I'm a reasonable person if I can get an explanation that makes sense to me. I can think of several times that it might have made a difference if my parents had actually given me examples for how things could go wrong instead of just generic parent answers. It probably would have helped if they had pointed out mistakes they had made too. I like to think for myself, and make my own mistakes. The harder my parents fought with me, the harder I fought back. The quickest way to stop rebellion is to ignore it. Our nation, and our culture, are still evolving. We're still testing our boundaries. I found mine. Maybe some people won't ever find a boundary they won't cross. *shrugs* Again, I think we'll have to pick our battles. I'm grateful for my good upbringing now even though there are still some areas that I think outside of the box on compared to my parents.
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Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:50 pm
People really need to know their boundaries and should never grab someone to check something out. If I see something unusual or that grabs my attention, I would ask if I could see it. some love to show off their tats, piercings, etc. some for the most part are more than happy to show it or talk about it. (sometimes almost too happy to show them as one lady who works with me offered to show the new employee group she was hired with "all" of her piercings. . .she no longer gets that carried away).

Sometimes the reason for the tat is more of a story than the tat itself. I love that Lady bo has a medic alert tattoo, it actually makes more sense than the bracelets (which break and could come off in an accident).

I have noticed here that certain jobs are more strict about tats, etc. If someone works at the hotel's front desk, as long as the tat is covered and they have no extreme visible piercings, etc., same with Security or anyone working on the floor with the public. . .while stage hands and show people basically can get away with anything as long as it in no way interferes with their work. . .most of them are already a different breed and their world is closer to the fringe. (I found that out a long time ago when I discovered that almost half of the "Show Girls" weren't "Girls" at all).

I don't think I was ever that rebellious and mostly ignored people who said I can't do something or shouldn't do something. . .it is a personal choice and choices can have consequences. Times do change. . .norms do change. . .and there will always be those who rebel against the "norms". . .hopefully what they to isn't something that can actually harm themselves.

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Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:35 pm
Yes they do. Unfortunately some people don't. I put people like that in roughly the same category as those that think they can comment on other people's weight, etc. It's just not ok. The way you handle it is the correct way to do it. I'm happy to show/talk about mine if it's done in the right way. I just don't like to be grabbed (unless I say it's ok) or critiqued. Personally I think in that particular guy's case it was just his excuse to touch me. *shivers*


Ain't that the truth! The tattoo on my arm has two smaller tattoos underneath it. Long story. thunk



Scarz wrote:
(I found that out a long time ago when I discovered that almost half of the "Show Girls" weren't "Girls" at all).




XD I'm sure that was quite a shock at first.



It's good that you were able to get by without rebelling. That usually works out for the best. Oh the consequences! I'm still paying for some of those. *rolls eyes at self* Overall, I wouldn't change much though. I learn the hard lessons best. I also had a lot of fun. XD Plus I wasn't all bad. I was a very well behaved child until I was a teenager, and I haven't done too badly since either. Even as a teenager I had my limits that I was scared to cross. It's just that the ones I did cross had some major consequences.
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